View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
x-statik Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 38 Zodiac: Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 496 Jobs: None
Location: all over
Level: 1 Class: Magician Race: Dwarf Element: Ice Alignment: Evil View this character
13193 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
i actually agree with daniel to a point... the dose given to patients would be low.. and do you really think that they would put all that money and effort into research and come up with that without realising what after effects k has? lol _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dudette G.O.D Dribble Whore
Age: 44 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 21482 Jobs: None
Location: Rave Mond
246584 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
meh I didnt even read what he wrote after the first comments
lol I'm not attacking the argument just the way it was presented LOL _________________ "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this." Anonymous. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
lil daniel wrote: | tekgal wrote: | thats bullshit,
it may give them temp relief until the drug wears off.
How about the side effects, like the fact it eats holes in ur brain and fucks up ur memory.
I remember I stopped using K the day teacher told me about all the ppl who end up in mental homes from prelonged use. |
LOL.. are you realising the shit you're talking??
Yes, it eats holes in your brain... no fucking drug does that.
LOL if holes were to appear in your brain, you'd be fucking dead - got to love the scare shit people believe.
I highly doubt the dosages of the drug being used for depression are anything near a recreational dose - perhaps you should take that into account?
They'd be threshold at best - theres still possibility for abuse, but oral doses of Ketamine are terrible at best, even in a low recreational dose - no one who tried it would do it again? Ever had a shitty K bomb pill and think you're going to die? whilst not actually feeling all that K'd out? then wondering what the fuck was in that pill until you test it?
Uneducated idiots should keep their stupid ideas, or shit they read in magazines to themselves, makes me sick to read some of the crap people believe without even doing any hard research... Did any of you even stop and think a minute as to what the dose would be? it's prolly something stupid like 5-10mg.. wouldnt have any outward effect at all. Think about oral doses of aphetamines? 5-10mg tops - the only difference is Amphetamine is actually enjoyable orally.
Jesus, some people need a fuckn reality check, the other Daniel is the only other person with any common sense. |
Daniel I have done a lot of reserach on this, and maybe you should look into it yourself rather than being a wanker !!!!!
I. Onley's Lesions (NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity)
(this is excerpted largely from the DXM FAQ's "Side Effects" section)
When NMDA antagonists were first studied they seemed like a dream come true: here were drugs which could block from part to all of the damage from strokes, head injury, hypoxia, polio, and a variety of other conditions. However, it seems that nature never gives something for nothing, and here too there was another side to the coin.
The dream ended when Olney et al. demonstrated that animals given high doses of dizocilpine (MK-801), a new dissociative used in research, showed curious vacuoles (essentially, tiny holes) in their brains. Specifically, the vacuoles showed up in the posterior cingulate cortex and retrosplenial cortex (see I.1 for an explanation of what these parts of the brain do). Further research showed that other indicators of damage were present, such as proliferation of microglia, secretion of a protein called HSP70 (Heat-Shock Protein 70), and expression of certain genes.
Since then, Onley's lesions, also known as NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity or NAN, have been discovered with ketamine, PCP, and dextrorphan (the metabolite of DXM), as well as a bunch of dissociative drugs you won't find outside of a research lab. PCP causes additional damage to the cerebellum and other areas, by the way.
For a long time, nobody knew whether Olney's lesions applied to human beings or not, or at what dosage they applied. The amount of ketamine used to knock out a rat, for example, is obviously different than the amount used for humans; it's also not the same dosage in mg/kg (milligrams per kilogram) either. And different effects of drugs "scale" differently too.
However, several things have happened recently which have led me to conclude that Olney's lesions apply to humans at recreational doses. First, I've received reports from many hundreds of users of DXM, some of whom have used it heavily and been clearly harmed. Second, more recent studies have shown that damage occurs to lab animals' brains even at lower doses (including ordinary anaesthetic doses of ketamine and dizocilpine!). Third, reports of ketamine-related brain damage have started to show up. Finally, the type of impairment people are reporting coincides exactly with the areas of the brain damaged in lab animals.
If you think you might be suffering from Olney's lesions, DON'T PANIC. You may just have depleted neurotransmitters, or induced long-term (but reversible) changes to neuroreceptor function. If you feel you are impaired, STOP USING NOW, and stay clean for several months before you get worried. Many people have told me that their "brain damage" cleared up after a few months.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Olney's lesions are WORSE in female animals than males, probably because females have different limbic connections. This may apply to humans. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pills also cause holes in your brain
Those brain scans
The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), based in the USA, recently ran a high profile anti-ecstasy campaign. They produced postcards showing two brain scans, one healthy looking brain from someone who had never taken E, and another unhealthy looking brain after E. The brain scan of someone who had taken ecstasy looked blotchy and full of holes. It was claimed that the brain scans showed proof that users had seriously reduced serotonin transport in their brains.
But what was really going on? In another study, scans of the brains of male ecstasy users appeared to be just same as scans of non-users. This contradicted the NIDA claims. A report in New Scientist magazine in April 2002 came up with some interesting suggestions. One finding was that the method of scanning might be badly flawed, or perhaps totally unreliable _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
x-statik wrote: | i actually agree with daniel to a point... the dose given to patients would be low.. and do you really think that they would put all that money and effort into research and come up with that without realising what after effects k has? lol |
Yes because its addictive and they want ppl to spend money on it. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Use of ketamine has been associated with serious problems—both mental and physical. Ketamine can cause depression, delirium, amnesia, impaired motor function, high blood pressure, and potentially fatal respiratory problems. " _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
"The fact that these idiots are using injectable ketamine for depression is mind-boggling pun intended. Side effects of K include memory loss and the inability to form new memories, aberrant apoptosis of neurons also known as brain damage, and paranoid schizophrenia in some cases to name a few. It was once used as a mild dissociative separates your feelings or perceptions from reality anesthetic in humans but has been replaced by benzodiazipines because of side efffects. We now use it as a cheap anesthetic in lab animals cats, rabbits. Having said this I have no doubt that it is effective for depression. Anyone who has ever taken PCP or Acid LSD - functionally very similar compounds to K, which is also a recreational drug can testify that they were not depressed. Might freak out sometimes and be a bit erratic, but not depressed well, maybe a wee bit depressed when they come down. What this really indicates is the total irresponsibility and fealty of both academic taxpayer-supported and pharmaceutical research theyve become so incestuous that they are now essentially the same to the bottom line as oppposed to the health of those who are sick. I have a PhD in neurobiology and worked in academics in the learning and memory field for 15 years and am disgusted at the direction it is heading. It is not science any longer but, rather, making a product. So the academic scientists on the project will get their grants and a pharmaceutical co will market ketamine to essentially an unlimited market, as almost everybody gets depressed at some point. And everyone will be happy." _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
x-statik Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 38 Zodiac: Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 496 Jobs: None
Location: all over
Level: 1 Class: Magician Race: Dwarf Element: Ice Alignment: Evil View this character
13193 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
tekgal wrote: | x-statik wrote: | i actually agree with daniel to a point... the dose given to patients would be low.. and do you really think that they would put all that money and effort into research and come up with that without realising what after effects k has? lol |
Yes because its addictive and they want ppl to spend money on it. |
thats an interesting assumption. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Great Deceiver G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 41 Zodiac: Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 6395 Jobs: None
Location: Beyond the Dark Sun.
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Dwarf Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
43391 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just re read over my post everyone & things will be fine.
Too many people try to help people in the best way they think they can, when really all they are doing is giving them crap advice, Too many people think drugs are safe/safer then other drugs... hahaha If you think your safe on drugs your an idiot. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Great Deceiver G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 41 Zodiac: Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 6395 Jobs: None
Location: Beyond the Dark Sun.
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Dwarf Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
43391 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tekgal wrote: | "The fact that these idiots are using injectable ketamine for depression is mind-boggling pun intended. Side effects of K include memory loss and the inability to form new memories, aberrant apoptosis of neurons also known as brain damage, and paranoid schizophrenia in some cases to name a few. It was once used as a mild dissociative separates your feelings or perceptions from reality anesthetic in humans but has been replaced by benzodiazipines because of side efffects. We now use it as a cheap anesthetic in lab animals cats, rabbits. Having said this I have no doubt that it is effective for depression. Anyone who has ever taken PCP or Acid LSD - functionally very similar compounds to K, which is also a recreational drug can testify that they were not depressed. Might freak out sometimes and be a bit erratic, but not depressed well, maybe a wee bit depressed when they come down. What this really indicates is the total irresponsibility and fealty of both academic taxpayer-supported and pharmaceutical research theyve become so incestuous that they are now essentially the same to the bottom line as oppposed to the health of those who are sick. I have a PhD in neurobiology and worked in academics in the learning and memory field for 15 years and am disgusted at the direction it is heading. It is not science any longer but, rather, making a product. So the academic scientists on the project will get their grants and a pharmaceutical co will market ketamine to essentially an unlimited market, as almost everybody gets depressed at some point. And everyone will be happy." |
Best thing i have fucking heard! MEGA respect to kay for knowing her shit. You tell em girl. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
**hayzzZZ** G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 36 Zodiac: Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 3260 Jobs: None
Location: Macleod
75936 points
Items
|
Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Daniel got pwnd.
rofl.
Kay, that article on Onley's Lesions (NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity) made me gasp. thankyou for posting that dude. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rurouni Zaineaol Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Jobs: None
Location: At work, at home.. or at 3D :)
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Half Orc Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
14408 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
it's still not HOLES in your brain... thats like saying when you create a chemical reactipn with two chemicals (lets use creating GHB as an example) it's still floor cleaner.
eg: you use y-butyrolactone and sodium hydroxide... + some water/ethanol. The two base chemicals are solvents, one is high ph, the other a low ph... the final product (GHB) is not a floor cleaner or otherwise... but you morons will say it is.
Even when the ICE you fuckin idiots love to smoke its reacted with the same shit to form the final product - then cut down with worse shit.. lol - whos the fuckwit now?
Try clean your floor with that.
Also, make sure you all watch out for the LETHAL chemical DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE which is in heaps of household products - you have no idea what this shit does to you...
also, leeching ONE write up on Olneys Legions doesn't make you a brain, it makes you a fool for believing it - there is very little substantial evidence to prove MDxx substances/K/whatever else cause those - infact - if you watched a few other doccos about it, they even dissapear - and can appear on brain scans as possible errors... fuckn get your facts - also MDMA is a 5HT antagnoist.. Yes i too know my shit.
To believe anything you read, after reading one or two articles is foolhardy, do a bit more research - you evidentally did no research because a) you didn't write that article and b) you leeched it, most likely from a google search in about 5 mins... But Jesus himself stands by your theories and ideas, and no one else is right, despite what research against your findings already exists... duh! Just take a minute before you believe everything put infront of you - your original comment "but that shit puts holes in your brain" made you sound like the fuckign dickhead of the century.
i hardly got pwned, i wrote all my own shit from things I have LEARNED over what, the past 4 years of studying the most useless things i know. _________________
"Equivalent Exchange - Human kind can not gain anything without first losing something. To create - something of equal value must be lost - this is alchemys first law of equivalent exchange"
Last edited by Rurouni Zaineaol on Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dudette G.O.D Dribble Whore
Age: 44 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 21482 Jobs: None
Location: Rave Mond
246584 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
lol dude I tihnk u need to re-read what was posted _________________ "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this." Anonymous. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Daniel you have your opinion I have mine there is evidence to prove both therory's wrong.
I don't really give a fuck if it puts holes in your brain or not, but the other side effects of taking K over prelonged periods of time have been proven.
I have done a lot of research into this, hense why I don't touch the shit. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rurouni Zaineaol Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Jobs: None
Location: At work, at home.. or at 3D :)
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Half Orc Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
14408 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Great Deceiver wrote: | Just re read over my post everyone & things will be fine.
Too many people try to help people in the best way they think they can, when really all they are doing is giving them crap advice, Too many people think drugs are safe/safer then other drugs... hahaha If you think your safe on drugs your an idiot. |
I agree with you fully man... But too many people are too quick to assume one is safer than the other, reality of it is thats not the case... too many idiots abuse the more 'volatile' chemicals foolishly and wind up dead... fact is a black dot on your head in a brain scan could be fucking anything.
tekgal: i rarely take K anyway, im not a fan of its effects int he first place... it's just an interesting argument - and when people say one chem puts holes in your brain, i quite like to point out the flaws in the idea - despite what 'scientific' evidence is given to prove me wrong, there's significant evidence for anyone who wants to look for it to say the opposite. _________________
"Equivalent Exchange - Human kind can not gain anything without first losing something. To create - something of equal value must be lost - this is alchemys first law of equivalent exchange" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dudette G.O.D Dribble Whore
Age: 44 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 21482 Jobs: None
Location: Rave Mond
246584 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
lil daniel wrote: | it's still not HOLES in your brain... thats like saying when you create a chemical reactipn with two chemicals (lets use creating GHB as an example) it's still floor cleaner.
eg: you use y-butyrolactone and sodium hydroxide... + some water/ethanol. The two base chemicals are solvents, one is high ph, the other a low ph... the final product (GHB) is not a floor cleaner or otherwise... but you morons will say it is.
Even when the ICE you fuckin idiots love to smoke its reacted with the same shit to form the final product - then cut down with worse shit.. lol - whos the fuckwit now?
Try clean your floor with that.
Also, make sure you all watch out for the LETHAL chemical DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE which is in heaps of household products - you have no idea what this shit does to you...
also, leeching ONE write up on Olneys Legions doesn't make you a brain, it makes you a fool for believing it - there is very little substantial evidence to prove MDxx substances/K/whatever else cause those - infact - if you watched a few other doccos about it, they even dissapear - and can appear on brain scans as possible errors... fuckn get your facts - also MDMA is a 5HT antagnoist.. Yes i too know my shit.
To believe anything you read, after reading one or two articles is foolhardy, do a bit more research - you evidentally did no research because a) you didn't write that article and b) you leeched it, most likely from a google search in about 5 mins... But Jesus himself stands by your theories and ideas, and no one else is right, despite what research against your findings already exists... duh! Just take a minute before you believe everything put infront of you - your original comment "but that shit puts holes in your brain" made you sound like the fuckign dickhead of the century.
i hardly got pwned, i wrote all my own shit from things I have LEARNED over what, the past 4 years of studying the most useless things i know. |
So dude where did u get your PHD in Chemistry ??
YOU ARE A FUCK WIT AND SERIOUSLY IF I GET IN TROUBLE FOR POSTING THIS I DONT CARE
How is what you have posted any different to what others posted - fuk dude u could of googled in 5 min all ur info tooo
I will guarantee that Tekgal has had more experince with this shit than you have - FUK DUDE HOW OLD ARE YOU AGAIN ???? OR GO TELL ME YOU WHERE TAKING SHIT WHEN YOU WERE 13 SO YOU HAVE 10 YEARS EXPERIENCE
Dude is your life that sad that you come to the fourm only to post negative shit and have a go at people
Everytime u post its bagging something or someone - lighten up man OR maybe the drugs that you know sooo much about are actually affecting you
Are you a crack addict by any chance??? Fuk dude really your posts shit me that much that I'm going to put u on ignore - _________________ "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this." Anonymous. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tekgal G.O.D Dribble Whore
Gender: Age: 46 Zodiac: Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 14329 Jobs: None
Location: THE SHACK
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Gnome Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
4148575612 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
lil daniel wrote: | The Great Deceiver wrote: | Just re read over my post everyone & things will be fine.
Too many people try to help people in the best way they think they can, when really all they are doing is giving them crap advice, Too many people think drugs are safe/safer then other drugs... hahaha If you think your safe on drugs your an idiot. |
I agree with you fully man... But too many people are too quick to assume one is safer than the other, reality of it is thats not the case... too many idiots abuse the more 'volatile' chemicals foolishly and wind up dead... fact is a black dot on your head in a brain scan could be fucking anything.
tekgal: i rarely take K anyway, im not a fan of its effects int he first place... it's just an interesting argument - and when people say one chem puts holes in your brain, i quite like to point out the flaws in the idea - despite what 'scientific' evidence is given to prove me wrong, there's significant evidence for anyone who wants to look for it to say the opposite. |
^^ that was my exact point and i don't see how it makes me look like a dickhead when there is proof.
Maybe you should take K more often it might improve your mood _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rurouni Zaineaol Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Jobs: None
Location: At work, at home.. or at 3D :)
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Half Orc Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
14408 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
lol, yeah im a crack addict.. wtf..
lol
My point says theres also enough proof to prove your theories wrong, you're only looking at one side of it.
Dudette: oh, i got my PhD @ PHD... way to over-react... I'm entitled to my opinion, and im gunna express it - so what if its negative, it's quite real and valid..
Thankyou Come Again! _________________
"Equivalent Exchange - Human kind can not gain anything without first losing something. To create - something of equal value must be lost - this is alchemys first law of equivalent exchange" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dudette G.O.D Dribble Whore
Age: 44 Zodiac: Joined: 22 Jul 2004 Posts: 21482 Jobs: None
Location: Rave Mond
246584 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
ROFL - u actually posting something in a normal manner without insoulting people
why cant u just post something positive for once
even in the promo threads for 3D u always come in and bag something seriously do u always see the negative in stuff and feel the need to inform us all of your negative opinion _________________ "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this." Anonymous. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Rurouni Zaineaol Post Whore!
Gender: Age: 37 Zodiac: Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 449 Jobs: None
Location: At work, at home.. or at 3D :)
Level: 1 Class: Fighter Race: Half Orc Element: Fire Alignment: Evil View this character
14408 points
Items
|
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
^^hahahaha, i'm sure you already know your not the only person who tells me that... i don't really give a fuck - its me, take it or leave it.
I post like less than once a day normally... lol.. get over it... gotta be some negativity around here, you'd all think we live on cloud 9. _________________
"Equivalent Exchange - Human kind can not gain anything without first losing something. To create - something of equal value must be lost - this is alchemys first law of equivalent exchange" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|